What is up with Quick SQL Grids? I have been trying to get a hold of Richard for weeks now regarding a serious issue for me and he does not reply......

Ditto

hmm, maybe he is on vacation? ....

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Erik van Ballegoij, The Netherlands

website or emails (on vacatio alerts)  should state so.....

I am not cool with modules that you buy that don't work, trust me on this but I think the price you pay for most modules does not entitle you to have total knowledge of the developers where abouts at any time.  I also think at these very low rates most people should be entitled to very limited support if any at all.  Don't get me wrong, if I buy a module I expect it to work when I download it.  If I find any bugs that are bugs and not feature requests, I expect in a decent amount of time those bugs will get fixed in a patch release or a newer version.  Aside from the module working, I think as a community our expectations are a little high for these low priced modules.

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Chris Paterra

Then let's just scrap DNN and any module you pay for.   If something is free, so we should expect nothing.   If you pay very little, we should expect nothing.   This makes a new requirement to be source is required.  Otherwise, DNN is nothing but a page and menu editor. 

If someone is charging..   support is implied.  Maybe not 24 hours a day but surely a way to know you are not going to get an answer for a week maybe.  That is just common sense.

I don't know the situation.. just saying in general.   I think if you have provided support.. .then it is implied.   Maybe it should be stated, no support.   Tell your customers what to expect.

brian_c wrote:

Then let's just scrap DNN and any module you pay for.   If something is free, so we should expect nothing.   If you pay very little, we should expect nothing.   This makes a new requirement to be source is required.  Otherwise, DNN is nothing but a page and menu editor.

Free will baby, walk away at any time.  Expectations of a free item and a pay for item should be different.  Comparing the two is apples and oranges.  Usually when something is free there is motivation of some other sort behind it.  The motivation behind the core itself is it offers us and all you an API basically that saves time and effort.  It should also be noted that a certain passion exists for people who participate in things like this and that usually produces a better product.  Pay for products are beasts of an entirely different nature.  I wish every module came with source, even at a greater price, but the reason most developers won't offer their source code (out of the modules that don't offer source code) is simply because they don't want to support all the questions that they would be bombarded with.  I think a happy medium here is that the source be offered at a greater price and the developer has their own forum to address questions and a FAQ, but no support is guaranteed on that source code.  

brian_c wrote:

If someone is charging..   support is implied.  Maybe not 24 hours a day but surely a way to know you are not going to get an answer for a week maybe.  That is just common sense.

I agree that perhaps the developers should specify this better but I disagree that just because something cost money support is implied.  Lets look at source gear for example and their vault product.  I can buy the vault product for a single license of $199.  If I want the package w/ support it is $250.  I also think deveopers should clearly state the support they offer is for x amount of days. 


I don't know the situation either.  I responded to this because I have never sold a module on snowcovered.  The reason I have never sold a module on snowcovered is because I see the effort to great and the reward too little.  If the marketplace where to step it up a notch and certain things were outlined and no longer expected, I would then reconsider.  I have spoken to many developers whose modules many of you, and myself, purchase from snowcovered.  Things would be better all around if the price was higher, but then the community would complain about price because of the nature of this project people automatically relate open source with free and cheap even though the two should not be related.  Now, there are many modules on snowcovered already that are mostly junk.  They provide very little functionality or serve no purpose that I see being usefull.  Some don't even work and many of them don't follow standards set forth by dnn core and its emerging subprojects.  Most of this is of course, my opinion, but much of it is obvious and probably seen by most of you already.  I can think of four developers I would buy a module from anytime no questions asked.  I think this number would grow if the modules costed more simply because it would be of more value to the developers.  Did you know snowy keeps 25% of each sale? 

So you can all get angry about my desire to drive up the price of modules and offer less support, but I really think a better market place would exist that would, overall, save you money and time in the long run if the modules cost more up front than they currently do now.

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Chris Paterra

I agree.

1.  Many modules do not work as advertised..   and poor support.

2.  25% is a lot ..  so there is a market opportunity but nobody is taking it ..   I wonder why.

3.  I didn't really mean scrap DNN ..  I meant if everything we add to it is junk and not supported.. it will make a bad name for DNN.

If I am paying for a module (no matter how much or how little), I expect reasonable bug support unless it is stated that this comes with no support up front.... Otherwise, I consider it a scam..... since you are paying for something that you have no idea of whether it works or not until it is too late.... bad customer support = bad business....

bkhoward,  chiptay:

Could one of the other DataGrid solutions work for you? 

I was thinking of SQLView from DNNStuff, or Advanced Datagrid by Efficion Consulting, or even my module SQLGridSelectedView... (shameless plug! )

Paul.

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Paul Scarlett - Ontario, Canada
www.tressleworks.ca
www.tz3p9v.ca

PScarlett wrote:

bkhoward,  chiptay: Could one of the other DataGrid solutions work for you?  I was thinking of SQLView from DNNStuff, or Advanced Datagrid by Efficion Consulting, or even my module SQLGridSelectedView... (shameless plug! ) Paul.

Thanks.... which of these do you think offers the most flexibility? and which do you think will be supported into the future?

brian_c wrote:

25% is a lot

The standard discount given by publishers to retail distributors in the software industry is between 20 and 30%. The only thing SnowCovered is doing that's non-standard and the source of much confusion, is calling it a "commission."

Nik

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Nik Kalyani
Speerio, Inc.

[DotNetNuke and ASP.Net solutions here]

Yyes..  but those retailers will take the product back ..    so returns are part of that discount ...    even though the creator often gives credits for those returns...    and they provide a very expensive retail presence.    I think 25% for online is high...  but the quantity ordered is probably low.   So.. all in all.. probably reasonable.   Digital River takes around 20% for orders .. but they are handling a huge amount of order support too.

I am not saying it is too mugh.. I said a lot.  People could charge more to offset that if they wanted to.  It is all market decisions.  I'm not complaining... all I care is what I pay and does it work or not.  :)

So much for this thread huh ..   we are bad at destroying topics.

Am I correct in assuming you don't have source code? If so then I think that is really what this is about.

So we have all noticed that source code on Snowcovered is higher. Also developers I have talked with on snowcovered say that THAT is where their profit comes because there are so many people (like me) who will not buy without source code. end of story (been burned too many times).

So a simple module isn't $25 (without source) on average it's really $45 (with source). Fine, my modules cost me about $45 still a very good price for solving some sort of issue I have.

Ok I have to admit I did buy Speerio File manager PA only but that is because of huge developer credibility and even with source code there is no way I would want to go in and try to tweak that thing the lines of code must be massive.

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http://ADefwebserver.com

We are getting ready to release a new module soon with the following ideas for pricing.  This may start another firestorm but the realities are that rent needs to be paid, etc and pricing needs to follow established software standards. 

PA - Only -                Pricing consistant with most modules
PA - Only (Hosting)   A DNN Host selling or using a module for 500 portals should not benefit from the same price as a single
                                  user buying the PA for only one portal.
Source -                    Source pricing will be significantly higher ($250.00+)
                                 This is meant only for businesses that can define a business need for needing source.
                                 Just saying you need source is not enough justification.

We believe most modules are purchased by non developers.  These purchasers need support not source.  In fact, if the module installs without error, contains online help and works intuitively then minimal support, if any, is needed.

Our free module that allows UserImports into DNN3.0 with a msaccess database, has gotten about 400 downloads with 2 requests for source and one request for a few features related only to a hoster.  No bugs have been reported.
http://www.mikez.com/Home/Default.aspx?tabid=90

From what we can determine, a module, free or $$, without source, will be used extensively by everyone if it supplies a need that is not available anywhwere else and works well without install issues, bugs, etc. 

Developers need not purchase modules that do not offer source.  If the entire DNN development community is relying on developers to buy the majority of modules then that goes against what we believe is occurring with DNN3.1.  New users are showing up every day.  They have installation issues.  They are not going to need source for anything for a long time.  Most of the DNN community can not possibly be developers.

Our business module is very simple
   Provide online demos of every module.
   Produce modules that install without error
   Develop modules with the end user in mind, not a developer
   Develop modules that DNN consultants will use and recommend to their customers

Our new forums will be up soon with areas for discussions on our pricing and support.  We suspect that we may loose a few customers by not supplying source.  But, if we follow our business model we believe we will gain customers that are interested in modules that help them build their websites or Intranets without needing to make changes to source.

We have supported networks for years and the last thing we ever want to do is have the source and modify it for every piece of software we purchase.  Anyone need to modify the source for Veritas Backup Exec?

mikez

(Sorry for hi-jacking the thread)

On the question of source. If I have a site that is really dependant on a module but I am not a developer I still get the source so I have some hope of paying someone else to fix a problem.

What if the owner of the one man company gets hit by a bus?

Has anyone seen their source code get repackaged and resold? Is there really that much of a risk in selling source code? Seems to me one nice thing of having a "main" market on snowcovered is the guy who steals my code wont be able to sell it there at least.

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http://ADefwebserver.com

was an ehancement to have role import?

bkhoward,

I can only speak for my module - SQLGridSelectedView.  It does allow adding of filtering and sorting along with text search.  I plan on supporting it into the future, and I do release to the source if you want it .  It is free - but if you find it useful, a donation would help support my site. http://www.tz3p9v.ca

As there is a lot of discussion on level of support, I can only say that I believe DNN will be a part of my work life for quite some time, and I plan on supporting what I have released.

All the best - Paul.

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Paul Scarlett - Ontario, Canada
www.tressleworks.ca
www.tz3p9v.ca